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Reply posted on Just some info for people asking about americas.. - 23 seconds ago
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Small Pocket Pairs from Early Position
177
2
8 months ago
Hey guys I recently had a discussion about playing low PPs from EP with a few friends. Specifically we were talking about in the early stages of a tournament when you are 100BBs+ deep. Although I don't limp much, I like to limp these hands ep, and if it gets raised and theres at least a couple callers, I feel like I have implied odds to call. If it doesn't get raised then I am also getting good odds to set mine. I think the advantage in limping and then calling a raise is it increases your implied odds, since you can assume the initial raiser will cbet. My friends tend to disagree and say they fold 22-66 in EP. Do you think you can setmine from EP profitably enough to play them? How do you play 22-66 EP?
4
United Kingdom
Male
#2
110
8 months ago
I would do this only in a tournament setting and only if you're playing at a tight table and only very occasionally. The problem you have is the limping will become contagious as people start hitting odds that compel them to call. When that happens they will start playing hands that have straights in the same range as your pairs, so you really need to be careful with that.

If you are ever likely to be raised before the cut off then don't play these in EP. It's just not worth it out of position, unless it's a tight player and you get a bluffable flop.

Your only real advantage with this strategy is the fact that your set will be well disguised and you'll get paid fairly easily if you hit it, as your opponent will likely put you on a bluff. Don't go too crazy or you kill this as they will start to suspect it every time you limp in EP.
52
8 months ago
I will throw a raise out and if it get's reraised i will call the raise and see what happens then go from there its always nice say u have 22 and you spike that 2 and they come out heavy i like that because im coming back over top to your lead out.
202
11
8 months ago
This totally depends on how many blinds you have and how the table is playing.
177
2
8 months ago
Onedesperatebet, I agree it depends on how many blinds you have. Thats why I specifically stated in my post 100+ BBs deep and in early stage of tournament (where we can assume you have 100+ BBs).

TrailBoss, I don't think I like your line at all. Lets say you raise 3x ep with 100BBs, and you get reraised 7-9x. You are now calling a raise oop, with a very marginal hand, and you will only hit a set 1 in 8. So you pretty much have to get it all in every single time you hit a set in order for this to be profitable. I don't think that is realistic.
177
2
8 months ago
Stabbo, I appreciate your response a lot. I think it is the most illuminating and has expanded my understanding of the situation. Doing this play in MTTs like you say is definitely better than doing it in cash (I am almost exclusively an MTT player). I also agree you should only do it occasionally, and not get in the habit of overlimping or making it obvious that you are only limping PPs. Maybe limp a few suited connectors, big pocket pairs, and AQ to polarize your range once in a while. Very interesting point about how straights can be made vs your sets in limped pots. Since sets are so hard to fold, this is a very threatening situation.
202
11
8 months ago
sharking (#5) wrote: Onedesperatebet, I agree it depends on how many blinds you have. Thats why I specifically stated in my post 100+ BBs deep and in early stage of tournament (where we can assume you have 100+ BBs).

TrailBoss, I don't think I like your line at all. Lets say you raise 3x ep with 100BBs, and you get reraised 7-9x. You are now calling a raise oop, with a very marginal hand, and you will only hit a set 1 in 8. So you pretty much have to get it all in every single time you hit a set in order for this to be profitable. I don't think that is realistic.
Oh, 100 bb then I will either limp or dump early position. Late position though I will raise any pair most of the time this also depends on if the table is loose or not. If the table is loose and there is call stations in the blinds then I will just limp then as well. If they will fold marginal hands then I think the best move is raise, because if you don't flop a set you might be able to just take it away with a c-bet.
347
232
8 months ago
I would not play these hands from early position. They force you to make difficult decisions early in the tournaments.
11
8 months ago
Others have said this as well, but it depends on the table. If you know that you can start a limp train that won't get raised big then limping is a decent option. I might even continue to do this if multiple people will limp behind and someone may stick out a small raise that others will also call behind. If someone is raising 1x for every limp then i'm not going to make this move.
I will say that given the common opinion of limping with small pocket pairs the disguise isn't there anymore. Most players with some experience will notice this tactic and won't pay you off. The implied odds just aren't there for this to really be profitable especially if you are going to call a raise. This gives reason to just fold and wait for a better spot to put your money in. There are exceptions to this of course such as maniacs or tight weak players. These players will give you action or you can easily out play them post flop.
4
United Kingdom
Male
#10
110
8 months ago
credsfan03 (#8) wrote: I would not play these hands from early position. They force you to make difficult decisions early in the tournaments.
I'm not sure that I agree with this. You either hit a set or you don't. If you hit you extract value, if you don't you fold.
Easy decision.
11
8 months ago
Yes it's an easy decision, but you are hitting a set such a small amount of the time you need to have pot odds or implied odds to warrant a call. My point is that you may not have the implied odds to make this move consistently.
898
2
8 months ago
I wonder how many actually read the OP . . . .

I think you laid out in your post the scenario required to make limping a small pair from early position profitably. You will never get the proper pot odds to set mine, but with deep stacks you have implied odds

I am deep stacked #1, this ups the implied odds. As you said, better yet if I get some other limpers and a raise from late position. Bully for me if one of the blinds is the raiser.

What to do post flop is just as important, as will be our position. If out of position and I missed my set, I'm prepared to check fold. If the flop is all low cards, I may be able to throw out a bet and possibly take the pot unchallenged. That will depend on my table read though. If I am in position, I have many options.

If I am out of position and I hit my set, I am definitely leading out about 60% pot
39
8 months ago
I set mine, like a mofo. it just pays off for me, not to mention you can bluff. with 100 BBs. heel yea im set mining everything from every position. I will use caution on draw heavy boards, but sets are semi nutz. gotta go 4 it
158
1
8 months ago
If I had an above average stack i would call with mulltiple players going in(Preflop raise included).
If someone goes allin I usually fold, but if I know the player to be loose and/or donkish, I would call him. pecially at these early stages.
347
232
8 months ago
What if you have a hand like 55 and the flop is 2 3 10. Then it can be difficult to play. If you also play these hands from early position you are usually going to get raised.
177
2
8 months ago
Hahaha i like pokeyourface's response that when u dont hit a set, u bluff. sounds good to me.
254
8 months ago
Like it love to get low poket ep, it is a ninja if u hit .Stack really depends on if you are able to play a low poket from ep if blinds are being raised .

This thread has been closed for new replies since it was either first created over 3 weeks ago or the last reply was posted more than 5 days ago.
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