Run It Once Q&A: Phil Galfond on the Golden Age of online poker

If you work really hard at poker and you get good, but 90% of the grinding that you do and the study that you do drains you of energy, that’s a recipe for burnout. It’s not going to work out long term.

I think it’s about finding ways to ensure that the type of career you have is one that gives you energy, or at the very least doesn’t drain your energy. 

What’s your take on the increasing popularity of raked club app games and their impact on the poker ecosystem? 

I haven’t played in these environments. I wish that I had more knowledge about them because I think they are becoming such a significant part of online poker these days.

I do a lot of coaching these days – especially on the career coaching side – and I feel like I’m at a bit of a disadvantage in that I don’t know as much about the app ecosystem as I could. I’m actively trying to learn more about it. Do I think it’s good for poker or bad for poker? Probably kind of bad, but it doesn’t matter because it’s happening and I think it’s going to keep happening.

I think the more useful way to think about it is: what are the incentives for people to play in these environments? Are those incentives going to lead to more of that behavior? I think the answer is yes. I think it’s easier for players to get money on and off. It’s easy for players to play from any location. I think they’ve made the experience for users low friction and that’s kind of why they’re winning.

Is it a better experience for recreational players to end up having some control over who plays in their games? Yes. It’s worth thinking about how that impacts what you do as a player.

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'And then... who knows?'

Do you think online poker will ever return to what it once was? 

It’s interesting because I remember like 15 years ago when, for whatever reason, people were thinking poker was dying – maybe it was training sites. I remember hearing from the older generation that people have been saying poker is dying for 40 years. People have always thought poker was dying.

People have always thought poker was dying.

 

It does seem like the threat feels more and more real. At the same time, we’re seeing games. We’re seeing new variants pop up that we don’t have the tools to solve – stand up games and squid games have become really popular.

In the last few years, with the advancements in AI, it does feel like we might hit some kind of exponential growth where AI is developing AI and then… who knows? I think that will happen kind of everywhere, not just poker. I think poker will stay beatable until there’s no use for most jobs. I don’t have a good prediction for if or when that will be, but I think poker will remain beatable until that point, with new variants being a big part of that. 

I think as far as poker coming back in the way it was, from a legislative perspective, they’re moving so slowly – states legalizing poker. In the rest of the world it’s gone the wrong direction, whether it’s Germany or Sweden where they have new regulations and are stricter and make things more annoying.

Phil Galfond putting in work at the online tables.

I actually think the most likely way that poker gets back to a kind of worldwide level is… illegally – a decentralized poker site that can’t be shut down. And there are a lot of things to figure out with that, of course, but I think that’s the most likely way. 

Being on the business side of poker operations, where I’ve had experience, it’s really hard to compete against poker platforms that don’t have to follow the rules, that don’t have to pay the tax you do.

It’s really hard to compete against poker platforms that don’t have to follow the rules.

 

There are two key elements that are hugely important that regulations really limit. One is liquidity. You need a large player pool. If you’re in five states or you’re in a couple of countries, it’s really challenging. The second is friction with deposits. It’s so hard to get people to jump through the hoops to deposit and the platforms that offer easy deposits have a massive advantage.

At the end of the day, you can’t have regulations that allow for money laundering so there’s always going to be restrictions on withdrawals and deposits. 

'I want a high profile match'

Would you ever consider another Galfond Challenge? If so, under what circumstances? 

Yeah, definitely. I want to play a high profile match that I can play from my home, in Las Vegas – which is limiting because there are only so many sites I can play on legally. 

Have you picked up any new passions or hobbies in the last 5-10 years?

I don’t have a lot of hobbies. I’m usually working or being a family man, but poker has given way for a lot of running my business, coaching, and content creation. Of those three, I really only enjoy coaching. I would say I’ve developed a new passion for coaching outside of just poker – beyond the game. It’s for poker players, but it’s a lot more about navigating your career in poker and navigating your life as a poker player. 

The Galfonds: Farrah, Spencer and Phil.

What made you want to be a coach? What can people expect to get from you as a coach?

That’s a great question, one that my marketing team has been asking me a lot. I’m not giving a good answer, according to them. 

I’m putting on a Beyond the Game summer summit. Beyond the Game is a year-long coaching group that I run, group coaching. It’s more kind of a mentorship program and career coaching for poker players. The summit is an in-person three-day event and we focus on those same things.

It’s really about figuring out where you’re headed, what’s standing in your way, and how to have the right approach and right mindset to reach the next level – whatever that is for you. 

If you're interested in hearing more from Phil Galfond, the entire conversation is available to Run It Once Elite members.

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^{Images courtesy of 'Galfond'/PokerGO.}